Hello! As most of you know, the Q&A from Blizzard to the Paladin class has been posted up. Here are some of the highlights that are the most important to Paladins / Rets.
A. Retribution dps is too low in PvE in 3.1. We are buffing it in 3.2 through the new way Seal of Vengeance / Corruption will work. This Seal is designed to really deliver damage once the paladin gets five stacks up, which will make it the Seal of choice for boss fights. Seal of Command will be used in PvP or PvE for short fights. We expect overall for Corruption / Vengeance to be the “go-to” Seal much of the time, perhaps even in PvP, provided you can keep the buff up.
Megaphone’s response : Fine with me. So far the PTR shows good news for us, regardless of which seal.
Q. Exorcism will be usable in both PvE and PvP once more which is great; aside from allowing this ability to be used against other players, what were the reasons to go down this route in redesigning this attack?
A. Exorcism never did a ton of damage to players, but it was an instant attack which meant paladins could use it while closing with an enemy. It was essentially just free damage and never a decision of any kind. The new approach to the spell prevents it from being used while closing, and also makes Retribution paladins have to pay a little more attention to their combat rotation — you want to use Exorcism when Art of War procs, and generally not at other times.
Megaphone’s response : Understandable. I like the way the new system works, makes me feel like I take an ounce more of skill. Just something extra to keep on the back your mind in combat now.
Q. Do we have plans to introduce a stand-alone interrupt ability for paladins?
A: We would like to add this kind of utility to paladins. First we have to get the burst damage under control so that Ret paladins are not winning PvP encounters by blowing players up. When we accomplish that, we’ll look at finally giving them more tools.
Megaphone’s response : Well you’ve certainly killed the majority of our burst, let’s see what you guys can do to compensate and make is a real non-faceroll class.
Q. With the slew of options to either “jump into” or “jump out of” PvP encounters for either offensive or defensive purposes many classes receive, do we have any plans to incorporate special abilities for paladins to either help them escape tough situations or quickly get into pvp battle (i.e. Deathgrip, Typhoon, Summoning Circle, Disengage, etc.)? It seems paladins are the only class without a short cool-down ability on the same scale.
A. Players are pretty good at detecting problems, but for solutions they tend to just look around at what other classes have that is working for them. Homogenization is something we fight as much as we can, which is the reason not every class has Death Grip and not every class has Charge. Judgment of Justice is intended to be the gap-closer for paladins. If it becomes a huge liability, we’ll evaluate, but at the moment paladins are doing extremely well in PvP without it.
Megaphone’s response : “Judgement of Justice is intended to be the gap-closer for paladins”. This is something that no Paladin will be happy about hearing, Blizzard.
There were a lot more questions in the post, but I saw these as the most important ones. The others.. not so much! What do you guys think about what’s happening so far? I think that the changes are somewhat for the better, it’s nice to see the class going places instead of deteriorating in the same stagnant lake we’ve been in for a while.
I’d rate the way things are a slightly-more-than-a-side-thumbs-up. Let’s see what other changes take place before completely turning that thumb up or sticking it back down.
- Megaphone
July 9th, 2009 - 2:39 pm
“Q. Do we have plans to introduce a stand-alone interrupt ability for paladins?
A: We would like to add this kind of utility to paladins. First we have to get the burst damage under control so that Ret paladins are not winning PvP encounters by blowing players up. When we accomplish that, we’ll look at finally giving them more tools.”
Many paladins will be very antsy to see what this becomes, and many others will set themselves up for disappointment.
July 9th, 2009 - 3:17 pm
Hey I’ve been reading around on initial impressions about the ptr and it seems that some paladins have been complaining about how ret is dead for pvp now but you and a few other paladins have been pretty happy with the changes so far. I was wondering if you could be specific about why you think the changes are good for ret in terms of pvp so far. A few paladins have been saying that the burst is still there but needs setting up now, what does that mean? By setting up do you guys mean stacking SoV 5 times and then using whatever is off cd to burst and saving instant exorcism at the end to use with HoW? I’m just curious what some of the paladins mean by “setting up”. I haven’t been able to get on the ptr yet but to me it seems like the changes are a pve buff but a pvp nerf. I don’t really see how the changes are good for pvp except for the sacred shield/fol hot change. Also, I agree with GC about us already having a gap-closer…just joking! =p
July 9th, 2009 - 3:19 pm
Judgement of Justice is a gap closer? Too bad you already have to be within 10 yards to use it, not much of gap to close if you’re already that close eh?
July 9th, 2009 - 3:56 pm
So, wait… I have to get within 8-10 yards to close a ‘gap’(based on latency, movement, etc). On a ’slow’ that lets them walk away at 100% speed. (Ignoring fun things like blink, teleport, shape change.)
The only time I find JoJ to be of any use if they are trying to run by on a mount in a battleground. That answer from blizzard is a joke.
I’m wary concerning any promises regarding an interrupt, but it would be nice to get some/any offensive utility off the GCD.
July 9th, 2009 - 4:12 pm
So our gap closer can only be used when I’m already damn near right on top of the other guy, and allows him to move at “normal speed”.
pursuit of justice is pretty well bullshit, if it were around 25% like feral druids I could ALMOST seeing it work, but as it is now there are too many variables that make it 100% ineffective.
I think the most simple solution to our gap closing conundrum would be to just cut the cooldown of repentance by 50-66%.
as much as I’d like a gap closer, I couldn’t mind a “gap maker” something like disengage, or a backwards blink. If used carefully it could be a gap closer OR a gap maker - which would make it somewhat unique really.
July 9th, 2009 - 5:30 pm
I would like them to implement that CS change they were gonna do awhile back now that the burst is gone.
I would certainly use it in a focus macro when a healer/dps is about to cast and bam CS reduced dmg and healing.
I think the only thing that bother me is JoJ answer. I think they may have a different version of JoJ when they play or something. But like Xinv said I would be happy if Repentence was on shorter cd and our dots didnt break cc.
July 9th, 2009 - 5:43 pm
gogo combat mount!
On a more serious note, I’d need time to evaluate all the changes on live before adding in even more stuff.
@SUPERTAUREN
http://www.retpaladin.com/warcraft/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3280
July 9th, 2009 - 9:02 pm
JoJ are gap closer?!
what the freak!?…
July 9th, 2009 - 9:49 pm
Ugh, at this point I see JoJ and pursuit as nerfs via opportunity cost since whenever we ask for a gap closer one or both of those abilities are brought up in response.
July 9th, 2009 - 11:48 pm
Using repentance as a cap closer does not work on druids for example. Something that obviously is a very frustrating thing in 2v2.
The Judgment of Justice as a gap closer is just laughable. They obviously must be referring to the times when we used to run behind someone just one yard too far away and not getting melee range. But that is not really what I think of when mentioning cap closer.
I love to have it against ferals or rogues though
July 10th, 2009 - 12:07 am
“Judgement of Justice is intended to be the gap-closer for paladins”
IS RETARDED. Not onle is it not even a gap closer on rogues/druids(the only classes it even really does shit on) it only makes it so they cant make a huge gap, it does nothing to close the gap.
Blizzard fails.
Now you might say oh you have pursuit of justice? But with chasing a lagging person around etc, its almost like its not even there.
Argh i just wanna drown the person who thinks this is a gap closer.
July 10th, 2009 - 1:29 am
Well im glad to hear straight from there mouthes that Ret Paladins dps is too low in pve. More so I would love to see them impliment that interupt rather than let it linger around the corner - General Vezax, low dps hindered possibly more than any other class by the -20% weapon speed debuff effecting our seals ontop or white damage, and we dont have an interupt to show any usefulness.
But when it comes to gap closing we have repentance once a minute providing the enemy isnt already dotted up. JoJ is nice to stop a mounted player or a Druid with the WSG flag - its nice, but it wont close the gap.
July 10th, 2009 - 2:23 am
“Judgement of Justice is intended to be the gap-closer for paladins”
ROFL ^
Joke of the day to be honest, at least I hope he’s kidding me.
And as for Frog who mentioned Pursuit of justice…agree :/ Pursuit of Justice is only noticable if you chase someone over a larger distance where you catch up with the guy, and if you’re fighting a mage, his blink will be essentially enough to keep kiting us
*sighs*
This is why I quit ret pvp :/
July 10th, 2009 - 7:56 am
I say it’s all promising. As far as Exo goes, I like having options. In fact, I wish there were more options to help get us out of the cookier cutter button mashing rotations. With AoW, I can now decide to either attack or heal. Neither will result in big numbers, but my choice at that very moment could change the outcome of the fight. That is what we have asked for. We want more choices and less bore; this is a step in that direction and I think we need to voice our approval of this, so they will keep moving in this direction.
July 10th, 2009 - 9:43 am
lol? Do they understand what a “gap closer” is? Do they understand what PoJ does? Must be on the same page of my spellbook as this “Healing Light” thing they mention.
Pretty disgruntled by this feedback. They said they were going to completely rework the Ret combat system and all they did was lower frontload and add Exo to Art of War. They also said that they were unwilling to add MS mechanics to any other classes, and yet they gave them to shadow and frost on the PTR instead of the melee class that has no real interrupt. I welcome the FoL change but it feels - again - that there is no clear design or niche for Retribution in PvP.
July 10th, 2009 - 2:25 pm
Well to be honest , it still isnt much of a choice. Your not going to heal yourself if your full or not being attacked. You can pretty much ignore it.
If your being attacked obviously you’d use it.
A real choice would be nice . This is forced choice.
July 10th, 2009 - 8:15 pm
They could do something like…
Repentance (Now a baseline ability trainable at level 30)
9% Base Mana
20 yd range
Instant cast
1 min cooldown
Puts the enemy target in a state of meditation, incapacitating them for up to 30 seconds. Any damage caused will awaken the target. Usable against Demons, Dragonkin, Giants, Humanoids and Undead.
(Lasts for 3 seconds against players)
Additional Notes: Giving a watered down version of Repentance to all Paladins will simply give a greater depth of utility to Prot and Holy for both PvP and PvE.
Then under the Ret tree where Repentance used to be:
The Tireless Crusader
Increases the duration of Repentance by 30 seconds (lasts for 6 seconds against players), and reduces the cooldown by 15 seconds. Additionally, a successful Exorcism strike will immobilize the target for 3 seconds and refresh the cooldown of your Judgement ability.
^ Basically, it’s a charge without the moving part. Instead, we freeze the target for double the length of time the charge stun would normally have lasted on top of resetting your judgement cooldown for a JoJustice (since Blizzard seems so hard assed about making THAT our gap closer…)
The principle is the same as any gap closer like Charge or Death Grip, but the execution is different.
July 11th, 2009 - 5:19 am
I’ve been absolutely destroying kids on the ptr, resto druids are pretty tough now with the resil buff, all we can do is pray for that interrupt and hope they never bring up this again.
Judgement of Justice is intended to be the gap-closer for paladins.
I know they have hired some top pvp players, for arena ideas/pvp class changes. Do none of them play paladin? It’s really starting to get embarassing.
July 11th, 2009 - 12:33 pm
“destroying kids”
That takes skill.
July 11th, 2009 - 1:02 pm
Sorry if you don’t get the jist of my lingo. But I’d rate it a few notches above yours.
“”“Judgement of Justice is intended to be the gap-closer for paladins”
IS RETARDED. Not onle is it not even a gap closer on rogues/druids(the only classes it even really does shit on) it only makes it so they cant make a huge gap, it does nothing to close the gap.
Blizzard fails.
Now you might say oh you have pursuit of justice? But with chasing a lagging person around etc, its almost like its not even there.
Argh i just wanna drown the person who thinks this is a gap closer.”"
July 11th, 2009 - 1:31 pm
I personally am very excited about the next patch. People are saying its terrible, ret paladins can’t kill healers and such, but honestly after the resilience change, name a class that can. They had to completely remove a bracket from the ratings picture just because of that. I’m also really looking forward to exorcising gnomes :3
July 12th, 2009 - 7:16 am
I’ll never get tired of repeating this:
“We need an interrupt ability and a true gap closer ability”.
Full stop.
July 12th, 2009 - 11:55 pm
I smiled.
July 13th, 2009 - 5:31 am
I think exo crits should slow someone down. Im not worried about that in arena cause Imma catch me somebody and imma gettem and them call my teammates ” Finish this for me”. I like in BC how my job was to annoy the healer while my priest mana burns at the same time.
But I quit being serious in BC because my comp makes me and I play through my blackberry modem. go go 700 lat. Getting verizon soon now that I got a job.
But I think our interrupt will go in crusader strike. I wish they would cause my first macro will be
# show Crusader Strike
/cast [Target=Focus] Crusader Strike
July 16th, 2009 - 3:31 pm
well i for one love the changes they did for PVE. the damage is better for boss fights but overall the dps still stays the same.
as for PVP ive givin up on ret altogether on the ptr. sure the facerolling on people who dont know what they’re doing is okay but on people with a little skill is just mad disappointment. and its a real pain in the rear against warlocks who like to spam seduction. spec’ing prot and wearing holy gear is just so much more enjoyable. sure the burst isnt there sometimes, but when you can walk away from most any one with barely a scratch just makes you feel all fuzzy inside. ” 4 rogues, no problem!”
i kinda wish they would move command down the tree and beef it up more for pvp. seeing how its the only seal you have to spec into to have, i dont see why they keep it so lack luster. no good self respecting ret pally specs into it. and i havent meet a person i would consider a full time ” i know my class” pvper who likes it. sure its great for the lower lvls who take it. (which i feel most of the face rolling problems began with) i say move it down and keep the instint damage but give it a damage over time tic. dont have it stack but have it rest its tic.
also vindication is also pointless too if it only drops AP. it should drop SP. now its just useless on spell casters.. id be happy with having it do interrupts or silence.
and I love this responce from blizz
Judgment of Justice is intended to be the gap-closer for paladins. If it becomes a huge liability, we’ll evaluate, but at the moment paladins are doing extremely well in PvP without it.
July 16th, 2009 - 7:08 pm
“Judgment of Justice is intended to be the gap-closer for paladins. If it becomes a huge liability, we’ll evaluate, but at the moment paladins are doing extremely well in PvP without it.”
Lets brake it down.
“paladins are doing extremely well in PvP without it.”
Ret is just one part of the Paladin class, they prolly see it the same way as most people. We have holy that is Op for pvp, we should all just be happy to be healbots. Bullshit! Sick of the the ret hate. and reading the PTR forums is just starting to make me hate people more!! arg
July 17th, 2009 - 8:15 am
It seems like they killed Ret PvP in an attempt to balance ret PvE. This is only my opinion, but I feel blizz should stop trying to make every spec viable for everything. You should have to sacrifice some things to be able to do what you want.
If that means that they make retribution the paladins “go-to” PvE spec, than I’ll happily reroll an MS warrior, just stop messing around with the class, or do something remotely productive please.
July 19th, 2009 - 6:08 pm
curu!! Ho mah gawd!
July 21st, 2009 - 1:15 am
Our 15% increased run speed + JoJ + freedom is our gap closer. Sure. I’ll buy that. But the interrupt is what I’m concerned with. When the ret changes hit live and they see that our burst has been crippled will we really see an interrupt to compensate? My stoic side says YEA. My realistic side says MAYBE AFTER SEASON 7!!!
On the PTR, can’t beat druids when they’re not AFK. Get mana starved on decent disc priests w/o surgical precision, can’t beat frost mages that know what they’re doing, can’t beat death knights that know what they’re doing. These statements are without the use of Divine Shield. Idc if I can beat someone by using a bubble or not. Also, being completely decked out in Furious and having full 25Uld gear to swap in. Our burst is there, but now it’s hiding behind circumstances that are far from reliable in PvP situations. This is all fine and dandy to be honest, but I’m truly worried that switching targets in arena environments for a win will no longer be an sane option. I’m worried that we will have to tunnel vision like a terribad warrior on the same target to be of any use as DPS and that our dots will be a horrible liability considering that crowd control is the difference between win and lose.
I think we’d be fine if they reduced the c/d on repentance significantly. It’s going to break early from dots anyway! It’s not a true interrupt but it’ll stop a cast and (like everything paladin) it’s on the GCD! Hardly OP.
Blizzard neutralized our OP burst vs. caster classes so… We. Need. Our. Interrupt.
July 22nd, 2009 - 8:53 am
u ar oll newbz. jajmant of justis + parsut of justis iz sou ou pi . Wat ar u complainin abaut - nais slou + dah 10 sekond stun wit nou cuuldawn ?!?!?
Seriously though when you ask:
- Dear Blizzard, we didn’t have a slow since the start of the game so when are you going to give us a gap closer or some additional utility?
- (sigh) Learn to play your class, you’ve had judgement of justice since the beginning of time! What are you all, retarded ?
Judgment of Justice is intended to be the gap-closer for paladins.
Funny and sad at the same time