Update 11/3 : Sacred Shield nerf reverted! Other things nerfed instead! More Forbearance? Unacceptable.
* Flash of Light: This spell no longer causes a heal-over-time effect unless the player has the Infusion of Light talent.
* Lay on Hands: This ability now places Forbearance on the target and cannot be used on a target with Forbearance.
Holy
* Infusion of Light: This talent now causes the paladin’s Flash of Light spells to heal the target for 50/100% of the Flash of Light healing amount over 12 seconds.
Protection
* Aura Mastery: This effect of this talent has been reduced in duration to 6 seconds.
* Sacred Shield: The damage absorption effect from this ability now triggers only once every 30 seconds.
In hindsight of about ~20 minutes ago when this post was created, I realize that a lot of my posts as of late have been very “gloomy” per say. Though not terrorizing as the rest some would say, this has to deal more about the politics of our class at the moment, instead of the crying about nerfs as some might take it. I certainly don’t believe we’re going to burn to the ground, I’d be quite silly to be advocating fearmongering! Read on fellow Rets and surveyors from other classes!
A wonderful depiction of sassy professionalism and rugged good lucks, our good friend here at retpaladin.com never ceases to amaze our humble community when he combats the harsh realization of advanced trolling tactics being able to break down even the greatest of Blizzard employees (haha, Caydiem joke!). In a thread titled no less than “Blizzard’s Vision”, our hero in blue attempts to violently shake and beat the hearts of random trolls to strain every last grain of dignity of the Paladin that might have been left. With hard-hitting input from “the top skilled and widely known representatives” such as Porter stating :
Source : (Well known player and bastion of the Paladin class, providing help to players of all skill levels and showing his massive skills to warrant a spare ear to be turned his way)
“WE CAN’T USE LOH IN ARENA, REMOVE THE @!!*ING ABILITY WE DON’T CARE HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND??????”
and a rapid response from the Crab Machine himself :
one would have to look to the stars themselves to wonder why the Paladin class is taken as “lolret” and “lolfaceroll”. Because you see, “lolret” is the staple ontop of our heads now, regardless of the class once being one of the hardest to play successfully. Nothing will change Retribution to anything other than “lolret” until Blizzard themselves saddles up and admits how childish they’ve become.
With the silencing of the class at Blizzcon and rampant booing encouraged by the developers themselves, one has to wonder why Blizzard wants the community to hate us so bad.
With the nerfs coming to seemingly affect only those at a high level of arena play (because we all know Sacred Shield isn’t what makes us powerful in killing noobs in battlegrounds), one has to wonder what ends that Blizzard will go to show us that they are not in contact with any high-profile player that has the community, hardcore and fun level elements of the class as their agenda.
With champions like Ghostcrawler mounting the wheel to take the flames (seriously who hired this guy? I didn’t know there were positions that involved constant beatings from the foaming WoW public forums) fighting tooth and nail with the average disgruntled player, is it really a surprise that the class alone had only a small part to play on what we’ve become to this day?
With eyes on Blizzard as hard as they have ever been, it’s only a matter of time before a shaky-handed post comprised entirely of fear of the legions that are ready to attack it is made. When it comes down to it, Blizzard and their Orange Trio of community managers aren’t the only ones to blame here. What about all of those guys who make posts that mean to ruffle feathers and get people.. wait.
Link to the thread : Clicky here!
Link to a thread well worth reading : Clicky here too!
- Megaphone
November 2nd, 2009 - 11:57 pm
First!
Ghostcrawler is backing himself into a corner. Only two things can come from that if it continues. Either Blizzard submits and tries to fix the class for the better or fights back in desperation and things get worse. But when you’ve been at the bottom and endured, what’s there to lose?
November 3rd, 2009 - 12:11 am
Douchebags who get paid.
Stalin,
Greg “Crab Raper” Street.
November 3rd, 2009 - 1:20 am
Maybe we can lose the bubble!!
If that happens some serious pally reworking can begin. But then again they’d prob screw that over with 1 spell too. The ’shield wall’ bubble is great, should have that as our main bubble and then get to work with some much needed utility!.
I see no reason why the 12sec godmode bubble should be around, sure it has its uses in pvp because its all we have really after the SS nerf, however if that was gone the devs could focus on some real balance. All the qq I see involves the bubble, it has no use in pve really… not since bubble pulling Garr.
November 3rd, 2009 - 2:26 am
Well… unlike Penaera i dont want bubble removed, and here’s why…
Penaera thinks that everyone crys about it? wrong… they cry about… EVERYTHING!!!
immune bubble, LOH, ability to self heal whilt hitting like trucks (see divine storm), burst damage, HOJ.
I still agree with what was said ages ago (probs a mod here)… To everyone else who see’s us jump them in PVP we have all these abillities, but to the person playing ret we only see MASSIVE COOLDOWNS. This isnt a reason to kill off LOH, or bubble, “things that make the class a paladin and not a warrior” its simply fine turning them or changing us. Its not the move thats the issue.
Lastly before i throw my comp out the window in RAGE i must say this, the ret palladin is broke. they are dont say they aint, do i have a way to fix em? nope. Do i hope blizz does for cataclysm? fuck yeah!
November 3rd, 2009 - 2:34 am
my attempt at helping Blizzard back from their completely terrible and distorted vision:
http://www.retpaladin.com/warcraft/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3789
November 3rd, 2009 - 2:37 am
lol
That thread is a blue fisher
That post is a joke
and, frankly, I find this whole thing quite funny.
I guess I was right when I said my preferred class (as unfortunate as it is), is the class that cries and whines the most, especially when blues do anything but blow wind up our arse.
Anyway, laugh on
November 3rd, 2009 - 5:14 am
It’s sad to say that the class that I enjoy the most in other games of a similar feel has intentionally received the least amount of proper planning and well-thought out execution in WoW since the original dev team hiked over to NCSoft. While there is zero argument about how much Paladins, especially Rettribution, has improved between 2.x and 3.x, there are glaring issues within the talent trees that have not been fixed since 2.0 was released.
Comments ranging from, “You’re not supposed to tank.”, “You’re a utility class with a secondary role.”, and the latest, ‘Ret feels too tanky’, that are coming from professionals who either developers or have a hand in the feedback cycle that supposedly exists between developer and players are not treating every class and spec as though they are on a level playing field.
I am sure that the next Blizzcon will allow questions from sword-spec arms warriors complaining about the future of sword-spec arms in PvE/PvP, but please, no questions about Ret, because . There was a point where it went from funny joke to unhealthy expected mentality, and that point was crossed years ago.
The QQ on all sides was bad. The self-hate was worse (and stupid). The obvious bias of the ‘arbitrators’ has left a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouths, whether they play the class and spec or not. Only a handful of the disgruntled have chosen to voice their views of the problem(s), and even fewer, still, have taken the time to reverse-engineer the game to give hard numbers for those who ask for it. Hats off to those who keep it level-headed in the face of bias.
The point is, based on experience, observation and a tad bit of insight, it is my opinion that most at the Blizzard dev team for WoW do not have a long-term goal for the Paladin class as a whole other than Heal/Tank/DPS. It’s kept open-ended because there hasn’t been quality time invested into the class as other classes have received overall. Why this is so is unknown to me. Economics? Bias against lore/class? Paladins always being discussed at Monday mornings when hangovers are still fresh and the coffee/asprin combo hasn’t kicked in yet? SEE, GHOSTCRAWLER????? I CAN TYPE IN CAPS, TOO!!!!!
Thankfully, this is just a video game, where we can put it down and walk away. The only real loss would be playing alongside the friends one has acquired, but the real friends will find a way to communicate outside of this game. Besides, there will be other games.
Potential recognized, but not sought is worse than having no potential at all.
TL:DR version: Read it. You’re on a forum for a reason!
November 3rd, 2009 - 6:51 am
Megaphone… you’re my hero
November 3rd, 2009 - 9:05 am
@Vindictus
If you don’t like it, go fanboy somewhere else. You’ve admitted that you aren’t involved heavily in PvP and that’s the basis of these arguments. It’s not whining when we’re pointing out legitimate concerns. Ret is not well represented at the top of arena and is definitely not too tanky, yet when players try to refute that, they’re ignored or banned for frivolous reasons.
@Pentaera
Bubble isn’t the root of our problems at all. It’s just easy for “BG Heroes” to point at and claim that we have the best defenses because we can go immune for 12 seconds every 5 minutes. Bubble has a lot of built-in balancing mechanisms already.
November 3rd, 2009 - 9:32 am
Yeah, since when was it hard to dispell bubble? Bubble is def not the paladin problem.
November 3rd, 2009 - 10:05 am
As many fellow paladins, Ive played retribution since TBC came alive. I liked it, and raided with it, and also pvped with it when it required a monstruos focus and skill to play it properly. I was there when rets were just a “funny hybrid” wich most regarded as “a phase between tank and healer” and I was there when we got the 3.1 changes to make the class so easy that lolrets jumped from every stone, before the mega nerfs we got after that. At start, like many of us, i tought it was for good, tho i didnt like it, I realized we did have too much power. Then the nerf continued, and a lot of us veteran players tought “ok, ret has never been a main class, lets have patience, we cant go down forever.” Then came even more nerfs, and now we have finally reached a point where we can seriously ask Blizzard if what they really want is to delete the class completly. If that is the case, Im sure most of the true rets out there would like Blizz to destroy the class already, and not smoother us little by little saying “its needed” and doing crappy blue posts by a 10 y.o mindset. If Blizz dont like ret, fine, delete it and give us some new talents to at least get a new class, but stop mocking us already with your constant dumb nerfs and bad planning. Be men, and accept what you really want for us, since its in your hand anyway, and we cannot say a word, as Ghostcrawler has already shown us with that post wich is an example of abuse of authority and bad feelings towards us. Is not complaining, is not whinning. We are tired. Tired of knowing that every patch there will be 3-4 nerfs on all classes, with the only constant nerfed spec being ret. We are tired of not being taken serious cause not even the developers take us seriously. We would like to have a true honest answer. And we want it now.
November 3rd, 2009 - 10:34 am
Ones like Vindictus are the most painful to be around. I cannot help but imagine a disgruntled man throwing rocks without a single other thought aside from, “HOW COULD YOU NOT AGREE WITH ME! YOU’RE ALL CRYING”
ad lapidem!
ad lapidem!
ad lapidem!
November 3rd, 2009 - 10:55 am
MY boy poter <3 hes on my server.
November 3rd, 2009 - 2:15 pm
Om nom, flames.
This will definitely be interesting to watch as it pans out. I wonder who will get to point the finger, and continuously scream “I TOLD YOU SO”.
November 3rd, 2009 - 2:46 pm
just talked to poter, he got banned lol
November 3rd, 2009 - 3:13 pm
So much trolling on that thread and the really sad thing is the LoH crap is still going strong 15 pages later.
November 3rd, 2009 - 8:40 pm
Greg Creep is a dumbfuck, its as simple as that.
When you pay a monkey, and let him type a thousand pages, maybe he’ll find his shakespeare in a few years.
November 3rd, 2009 - 9:29 pm
It is simple fact that Ret Paladins were screwed up in TBC because of the lack of attention given them by Devs.
It is apparent that Ret Paladins are/will remain screwed up in WoTLK because of the abundant attention given them by Devs.
Just can’t win, can we……
November 3rd, 2009 - 10:27 pm
The new Sacred Shield change is a lot better than the original one. If they still don’t think that is enough they could just move the increased chance to crit across as well. And the LoH Change is fine for Ret but sucks for Prot. Now you can’t LoH within 2 mins of Divine Prot or vice versa. And if Forebearance goes on the target then the prot is stuffed if the Holy used it.
Either way they really need to investigate giving Ret some offensive utility.
November 4th, 2009 - 1:11 am
I’m gonna stop playing WOW.
This nerfs are just stupid.
I’m tired of this.
November 4th, 2009 - 2:54 am
Lol pro, Im back to playing Ret again. WIN..
Nvm lol im still rolling holy
November 4th, 2009 - 2:55 am
Oh btw.. Gankadin Im having a great success playing on the ESL Tournament as Protret
November 4th, 2009 - 4:20 am
IF this is all that they nerf, and I know that is a big if, then I can live with it. I found some good advice from gankadin about runnin sword and board and seal of light to help my survivalbility and overcome this SS nerf. Now to perfect it…..
November 4th, 2009 - 5:01 am
Something tells me blizzard will not be happy until we are back to lolret. The “offensive utility” we were told would compensate all the nerfs is never going to come. ever.
November 4th, 2009 - 4:19 pm
Ernhart sword + board makes you loose the game cause of going defensive. It is not a viable method to overcome things.
November 4th, 2009 - 5:02 pm
More nerfs to ret… The same class with near 0 representation in 2’s, and representation in 3’s on the back of cleave teams (where they are the least important memeber of the team).
Ret still receives disdain because of the playstyle which lends itself to smashing 0 resil fools in bgs.
November 4th, 2009 - 9:59 pm
First ever post; howdy.
Ghostcrawler is not the end-all, be-all, omnipotent god of all things WoW. He is one of many people dedicated to WoW. His word is not law, and it’s ridiculous for us to sit here and pick apart, dismantle, and autopsy everything he says as scripture.
He’s a scapegoat for everything we don’t like about the game, not just the paladin class. I doubt any one individual on this website, on the WoW forums, or in Blizzard Entertainment could take over his job and do better, and certainly not by us (paladins).
Enough with blaming him for everything.
November 5th, 2009 - 2:09 am
While I agree with Brakkyn that GC does catch all the flak, and he’s one member of a team who makes these decisions, he also put his own head on the chopping block by 1) being the LEAD of that team which consistently proves that they have no idea of direction for the paladin class in general, and certainly not for ret and 2) being the voice/embodiment/spokesperson/whatever you want to call it for that same screw up of a team.
So yeah, he didn’t just get hit in the head with the shit-stick, he walked over and rammed hismelf into it.
I will disagree with you in that I feel MANY people (read as: anyone who knows the history of the game, has an unbiased concept of balance, a good knowledge of game mechanics, and the ability to TYPE IN CAPS) could do it AS WELL as him. Look into your top end guilds with members who excel in both PvE and PvP and you’ll probably find several who could do it BETTER than him.
November 5th, 2009 - 4:29 am
Felic- I do not exclusively go sword and board, I have it in equipment manager and I might change to it in the course of battle depending on situation along with going seal of light. I have found it confounds melee dps comps. They go for me to try to burn me down. When they do my DK buddy rips one of em a new one and I have found that my dps is not all bad with sword/shield. I have just started it in arena and it has some serious promise.
April 13th, 2010 - 2:31 pm
You know guys ,
i just wondering why the Paladin’s with all his spec are getting a lot of Nerf and no more serious improvements and Blizz do believe that Paladin is OP .
why Blizz didn’t pay attention for the Master of PvP Rogue and his sucks unstoppable stuns and slow moment poisons and crapy stealth abilities ,which you stop watching your character getting down and cant do anything.
and they still improve his abilities.