UPDATE 4/6/10: Added information about upcoming class changes and Cataclysm’s dispel mechanics.
Within the system, there are currently five types of dispellable (or curable) buffs and debuffs: curse, disease, poison, defensive magic, and offensive magic. An example of defensive magic dispelling would be using a dispel to free a polymorphed ally, while offensive magic dispelling would be utilizing a dispel ability to strip away an enemy’s buff or heal-over-time (HoT) spell. The main distinction between these two types is in whether or not you can target an enemy with your dispel.
In Cataclysm each healing class will be getting three out of the five types of dispels, with one of these always being a defensive dispel magic. This design makes sure that finding a healer with the ability to remove magic isn’t restrictive in building teams for Arenas or rated Battlegrounds. It also allows the encounter designers to assume, when designing dungeon or raid fights, that every group can dispel magic.
In addition, we’re making the opportunity cost (what the player could have accomplished with different actions) for dispelling a bit steeper. We think the cost is too low for three reasons: 1) The actual mana cost is low. 2) You never waste a dispel. If you try to dispel a debuff that isn’t there then the dispel just won’t go off. 3) We have spells that remove debuffs with minimal input on the part of the player. In Cataclysm we are raising the mana costs, making it possible to waste mana by casting a dispel when there is nothing to dispel, and removing Cleansing Totem, Abolish Disease, and Abolish Poison from the game. With these changes in mind, we are working to plan dungeon and raid encounters where dispels aren’t in constant demand or spammed in order to be successful, though some need for dispels will still be a part of the design.
As previously mentioned, we are providing three dispel capabilities to all healing classes as follows:
Druids will be able to dispel defensive magic, curses, and poison.
Paladins will be able to dispel defensive magic, diseases, and poison.
Priests will be able to dispel defensive magic, offensive magic, and disease.
Shaman will be able to dispel defensive magic, offensive magic, and curses.
There is some trade-off that is being made in making these changes and we wanted to expand on this further.
Protection and Retribution paladins will lose their current ability to dispel magic.
All shaman will lose dispel disease and dispel poison in exchange for Restoration gaining dispel magic.
Restoration shaman, Restoration druids, and Holy paladins will need to talent into their defensive magic dispels.
Shadow priests won’t be able to remove disease in Shadowform.
Mage, hunter, and warlock will retain their current dispel mechanics.
Body and Soul remains the same, and basically any dispel mechanic not mentioned above is currently planned to remain as it is.
When possible, we’d like to combine dispels into a single action. For example, the druid ability to dispel curses and poisons might be a single spell with a Restoration talent that also allows it to dispel magic. This part of the design isn’t finalized, however.
As with all of our Cataclysm previews, keep in mind that any of these decisions could change when we’re in beta.
These changes will by no means be comprehensive, and are subject to change between now and the launch of the expansion. It’s also important to understand that some classes are currently further along in the development process than others, and as a result the amount of information will vary from class to class. Please do not let this frustrate you should your class be amongst those which are on the “lighter” side of things, as all classes will receive the same level of design attention before the expansion is released. Additionally we’ll be providing more information for all classes, especially as we move into the beta phase.
Below is the schedule for each class:
Shaman – April 7
Priest – April 7
Warlock – April 7
Warrior – April 8
Death Knight – April 8
Rogue – April 8
Hunter – April 9
Druid – April 9
Mage – April 9
Paladin – April 16*
These posts are being coordinated internationally so they’ll be posted at different times throughout the day and night on the given dates to give players around the world the ability to see posts made at a convenient time. This thread will be updated with links directly to each class preview as they’re posted.
*The paladin is still deep in development. Instead of giving a preview that would be potentially less comprehensive than the other classes we made the decision to post it when it’s ready, in order to properly honor the paladin class and those that play them. The wait isn’t too long however as we’re expecting to be able to post it on April 16.
Yeah, while Ret and Enhancement generally work out okay as cooldown-limited specs, we think we need to juice up the gameplay of both just a little bit so there are more opportunities to screw up, so that when you don’t, you feel really awesome. Removing the chance of failure doesn’t really make for compelling gameplay.
AMG!! It’s been so long I don’t even know what to say? Cookies! What could this mean? What does “juice up the gameplay of both just a little bit” mean for Retribution?
Post your ideas here and let’s get the creative juices flowing.
Mmmmmm…. lemonade.
On an unrelated note, I’m at work and just laughed out loud hysterically at a recent spam comment we received. I’d like to share this with you all in hopes you’ll find it as humorous as I did. You can definitely expect a Part II of “The Absolute Best of RetPaladin.com Spam” in the near future! Megaphone! Slayton! Don’t delete any comments for the next few weeks!
Here’s the comment:
Te be honest, im just starting to question myself why they are still paladins ? at last patch, not even 1 thing was mentiont again for paladins, they nerfed us so much that actually wondering is there still a class we can kill on 1 on 1 ?? and in the other way, other classes can pop 3 to 4 CD’s for a fight at the time => we have to wait for 2 minutes to do that … whats up with this blizzard, im telling you, im pvp’ing as retri since TBC that paladin came out for horde, and it has been goiing from bad to worse with this class. I dair you to kill a equal geared ‘Spriest – Druid – Warlock – …’ it has become insane … they taking everything away from the paladins and we end up with a little smack of shit. Im sorry if im sounding frustrated, be am I wrong about this ?
BE AM I WRONG, FELLOW RETADINS? BE AM I WRONG ABOUT THIS?
April 5th, 2010 - 8:42 am
finally got gc to talk!!
April 5th, 2010 - 8:52 am
LOL, but in all seriousness that quote looks rea promising.
April 5th, 2010 - 9:03 am
Wow, English teachers around the world just did a mass /slitwrists after reading that…
April 5th, 2010 - 9:21 am
No you are not wrong.I’am playing retribution spec exclusively 3 years now and i haven’t respec not even once for holy or prot not even to test it.and my pally is my main.i was playing full retri through the stone age(aka tbc) and i find your point 100% correct.On the other hand i stopped believing in change’s.I don’t give a shit what juice up their gameplay mean’s.I will not take anything serious not untill they apply change’s into live realm’s….
April 5th, 2010 - 9:22 am
Actually i like’d your comment so much that iam gonna repost it now on wowforums in a pvp thread that excists on paladin forums (EU).
April 5th, 2010 - 10:01 am
LOLOLOL, clearly that retadin is bad.
April 5th, 2010 - 11:52 am
I, for one, always am fearful of “Juice”. I would rather have the purple stuff!
April 5th, 2010 - 1:01 pm
@ Rostov
PURPLE DRANK
April 5th, 2010 - 1:39 pm
Homygawd.
April 5th, 2010 - 2:51 pm
oh noes, incoming disappointment because nothing will happen bevore cataclysm
wait and see… wait and see…. maybe blizz will not dissapoint me for once
April 5th, 2010 - 3:38 pm
1 of 3 things could happen
1. it will be a nice little boost (with a build up of course cause god forbid we be slightly a little bursty) that will cause everyone an their mothers to cry NERF. and you know they will and it will kill our dps and make us relearn a new way to pvp like going with straight pve tank gear or something stupid like that.
2. it will be a dps boost of like 5dps over all while giving us another forbearance and will be linked to every single GCD. did i mention it will probably reset our swing timers and nerf our heals or art of war buff or mana regen.
3. the best and worst thing that could possibly happen is that it will make a well crafted shockadin spec viable in pvp. <—- (just cause i really like and want holy shock as a ret)
April 5th, 2010 - 5:48 pm
Well I think we can be nearly 100% confident that Ret’s won’t be seeing Holy Shock as it would provide yet another GCD for us to juggle.
I think what they may be looking for is some way to free up GCDs for us. I could see something like increasing the damage and healing of Divine Storm by a % but increasing the CD to 15 seconds. I could also see a secondary effect placed on Crusader Strike such as the following:
- Each time your Crusader Strike successfully hits a target, you receive a Mark of the Crusader. Mark of the Crusader increases the effectiveness of your next Flash of Light by X%. Stacks up to N times.
Something like the above would make Art of War usage a bit more strategic.
April 5th, 2010 - 6:16 pm
New dispell system info on the Blizz forums, Ret wil NOT be able to dispell Magic debuffs!
April 5th, 2010 - 6:37 pm
Retribution and Enhancement in Cataclysm are unlikely to ever have to worry about mana much. That part isn’t changing. My point was that because they both have cooldown limited gameplay, we need to make sure there are enough decisions going on that the specs A) aren’t boring and B) have some variance in performance depending on the skill of the player playing them. I’d agree that Enhance needs less “new stuff” than Ret, and in any case we’re talking more about a new talent or two and less that you now have combo points to manage.
Quote from Ghostcrawler on the DD forums
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24038550538&sid=1&pageNo=1#14
April 6th, 2010 - 12:08 am
the dispell change sounds like an overkill >.<
April 6th, 2010 - 5:04 am
well the first thing you listed tharvolde would be nice. having a longer cd on DS would’nt matter so much if you have 20 T10. then again it might be 2 powerfull seeing how sometimes i can get it to pop 2-3 times in a row.
And something like a mark of the crusader idea would be nice. but if anything i would see it as a disspellable debuff that would increase our melee hits on a target.
April 6th, 2010 - 5:08 am
i have all the time play paladin, the three spec of course, now i m in a guilde of pvh HL in rashgarroth eur omnium,( im retribution.)
I have an idee that can made the paladin gameplay more brain. when you ask every one, they say paladin burst not dps. unfortuntly this burst is not enophe, every paladin want to say we need less burst, but more controle.
my idee is to put a new talent in the retribution spec, called ((lightninig power)) the ability of this talent convert tha mana as holy power ( same as the systeme of rogue energy or warrior rage)), than we can made a combo point…ret paladin and shaman enha, will be the only class cac that have mana pool. it must change. we need less burst more controle.( for exemple a kick), why the last class ( DK) have double kick) strangulate, and kick, paladin have two controle stun and repentence, this is very weak when we compare to the other class.
and when we talk about this, the other class and blizars developpers tel us that we have bubble. if you tell all the community of paladin if they must choose bubble or a skilled game play( futur brain idee…) they will choose the gameplay, and tel you remove bubble, but give us what we ask years ago ( a compétitive gameplay)
excuse for my english, i m french ( furàx, omnium,rashgarroth, gladiator (ret s5)
April 6th, 2010 - 7:07 am
Paladin changes over a week after every other class. Yet again, paladin gets put off until the end, which results in rushed design that ends up not working well and having poor balance.
The dispel changes make absolutely no sense at all (for any class).
I’m glad I quit.
April 6th, 2010 - 8:23 am
I play a horde pali, i’m playing ret and prot-ret in bg’s .. doing fantastic, consistantly top of the charts in both dmg and killing blows.. the people complaining are just bad players.
ask tetradee on hyjal for tips on palidan pvp if you like.
April 6th, 2010 - 8:45 am
is it just me, or is the layout of the site somehow brocken?
can´t see the player or the button for the forums anymore (i´m on 1440×900 layout)
everything is underneath the posts now…
April 6th, 2010 - 10:09 am
Well, I don’t like the dispel change. One reason I’ve always loved being a paladin is the support role. I guess the majority of players want to get away from that? I dunno. Also need to see the changes that are coming. On its own though, I don’t like to see that only holy paladins will get cleanse. Hell, we’re not even sure if they’ll get cleanse. They may get defensive magic on a different ability and all paladins will have ot use purify.
Gotta love the footnote listing when the changes for each class will be previewed. It almost sounds like flavoured text. ” in order to properly honor the paladin class and those that play them. ” I don’t know if they’re being serious, or tongue in cheek funny. So many jokes for so long…
April 6th, 2010 - 10:32 am
Yeah, I think the layout got borked, Poltergeist. I’m looking into it!
April 6th, 2010 - 10:51 am
The layout should be fixed now. I had a hanging div tag in the above post that was no doubt throwing off the layout.
April 6th, 2010 - 11:03 am
Lets see…..paladins last on the list again….not a good sign. Ret and Prot are loosing their defensive dispels, one of the few reasons we are still viable in pvp….we get vague allusions that blizzard is going to make one of the more annoying specs to play even more annoying.
No mention of increased damage to non-undead targets. No mention of anything to do with seal/judgement mechanics, target switching, or the fact that our ability to close with enemies is going to be nerfed to hell with the dispell changes.
Maybe im just free associating here…but I think I have heard this rhetoric (no puns) somewhere before……
April 6th, 2010 - 12:23 pm
Im hoping this charge for Ret opens up some offensive utility for us, as it would only make sense, being as cleanse was a fairly large chunk or the reason we were brought onto a comp, I see us having either a shortish CD gap closing move and/or a shortish CD interupt, also I foresee HoJ losing a large chunk of duration, maybe down to 4 sec and an overall 45 sec CD.
I would not like to see us have a snare, as it would open up a few more comps for us to have to reley on a teammate to provide that for us, and with HoF being as strong as it is would be overkill on our uptime.
As to Paladins in general having to wait a week or more longer than the other classes, I dont know if that is good or bad, with Blizzards track record regarding Paladins…well its safe to say I wont stand around hoping for the best….
April 6th, 2010 - 4:52 pm
April 16th:
O Executioner, please take my gold coin for a clean cut!
Well I can confidently say without any doubt that this is a bad omen. I am going to translate this message for those of you who can’t see past public relations mumbo jumbo.
*The paladin is still deep in development (last on the priority list) . Instead of giving a preview that would be potentially less comprehensive (empty promises) than the other classes we made the decision to post it when it’s ready (when we get around to it), in order to properly honor the paladin class and those that play them(@#$@ you whiners). The wait isn’t too long (Just 700% more than any other class) however as we’re expecting to be able to post it on April 16 (If we aren’t stoned out of our minds on the warlock buffs).
April 6th, 2010 - 9:56 pm
I think we set our standards far too high.
April 6th, 2010 - 10:34 pm
P.S. Blizzard has never cared until that last “oh shit second.”
April 7th, 2010 - 12:15 am
“I don’t give a shit what juice up their gameplay mean’s.I will not take anything serious not untill they apply change’s into live realm’s….”
He’s right, because theyre full of shit, and its all of you who are getting towed along by the company as their hapless pawns.
April 7th, 2010 - 10:32 am
…and here we all still care, or else we’d keep our mouths shut.
April 17th, 2010 - 4:25 am
# Brakkyn
I think we set our standards far too high.
Standards every other melee class gets for granted? Nope, we are asking what we should be! +
Q: Now that paladin’s Holy Shock is baseline is there any plans to change the Art of War talent?
Is that guy asking supposed to help or is he just there to ask for more nerfs?
What’s that about an interrupt? Let me be the 1-st to say:
HELL, IT’S ABOUT TIME!