Hail, RetPaladin.com
Tharvolde here and I’ve got some great news for you: it’s dinner time! Blizzard promised that they would be unveiling “the whole enchilada” with the next beta build and, well, it’s here. Mmo-champion has a great write-up on the new talents and spells for Retribution so check it out:
Honestly, I had typed out a lengthy article here discussing quite a bit about the talent trees and offering some thoughts but, after further consideration, I decided to forgo posting it and instead will reserve judgement until I have had the opportunity to talk one on one with someone who is in the beta right now.
Which brings me to my final point:
If you are in the Cataclysm beta right now and have some time you could spare me, please reach out via PM. I have a slew of questions I’d like to ask and would greatly appreciate your time.
Quicky update by Megaphone : If you haven’t already check out the new talents here! : Click Me!
Update by Tharvolde: Per Blizzard, the Paladin talent trees are still a far cry away from what they will turn out to be. In other words, the talents Megaphone has linked above are still largely placeholders and just combinations of existing talents. The final trees for Paladins will look quite a bit different still.
July 14th, 2010 - 7:20 am
What kind of information are you looking for? I am in the beta but still only lvl 80. I haven’t had a chance to play on the latest build as I was still downloading it last night.
July 14th, 2010 - 7:33 am
Improved Crusader Strike is sitting low into that Prot tree, but we are getting a version of that at the bottom of RET right?
Sanctified light would sure be nice for leveling if we weren’t locked into one tree for the first 31…however, it’s going to be real nice past that. I was worried Holy Shock would be moved to heals only, but it is still listed as a damage spell, which has crit and dmg increase modifiers built into the RET tree, so I am guessing we will be using that to help with on demand burst to finish off someone.
“A righteous crusader who judges and punishes opponents with weapons and Holy magic. ” – While this sounds cool and all, it’s nothing compared to the “Summons a Great Sunwalker Kodo” spell which is like super awesome.
Did I overlook the interrupt?
July 14th, 2010 - 8:09 am
I too am in the beta. So, if I can be of any help, please let me know.
July 14th, 2010 - 8:24 am
Where’s the enchilada? Nothing on MMO-Champ yet, that I can see.
July 14th, 2010 - 8:55 am
@Kudia and Dallanna
Thanks. I may be reaching out to one or both of you shortly!
@Dreys
The current post on MMO-champion has the new talent trees for every class and all the “primary skills” that are automatically learned when you choose your specialization at level 10. Retribution is getting the following primary skills at level 10:
Divine Storm
Sheath of Light
Two-handed Weapon Specialization
Divine Purpose
July 14th, 2010 - 9:06 am
Thanks Tharvolde. Damn work www filtering wasn’t allowing the talent tree to load correctly. Thanks!
Also, lol @ 33% base judgement crit chance with Sanctified Light + Fanaticism. Ret’s going to blow shit up.
July 14th, 2010 - 9:17 am
Heya, im on the beta, let me know if you need anything, got lots of time to kill!, and dont mind getting the goods
July 14th, 2010 - 9:19 am
Also… Righteous Vengeance looks absurdly overpowered. Arms/Ret 2v2 anyone? Good luck healing through 30% increased damage + 20% reduced healing.
July 14th, 2010 - 10:06 am
I wouldn’t be celebrating just yet. They said half the classes are still going through major overhaul, including paladins. Off the top of my head, based on thing GC already said, Divine Storm WON’T be a primary skill after all, Heart of the Crusader still exists at all (unless they changed their minds about the +3 all crit debuff and are leaving it in), and our 31st talent doesn’t even have any info yet. Until the tree is really finalized, I’m withholding my judgement…no pun intended.
July 14th, 2010 - 1:11 pm
Ghostcrawler said paladins haven’t received their dev pass yet. Notice how the ret tree is much smaller han every other tree.
The whole enchilada, except for paladins.
July 14th, 2010 - 1:14 pm
Also, look at Sanctified Wrath. That’s going to get nerfed fast.
July 14th, 2010 - 2:16 pm
@Dreys
Righteous Vengeance is the same in this build as in live.
July 14th, 2010 - 2:50 pm
“These are old talents. This is not the paladin revamp that we said was coming. Sorry, you’ll just have to wait a little bit longer. ” -GC
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25968569991&sid=1&pageNo=1#13
Not quite the whole enchilada yet. We’ll get it “soon.” So you may not want to spend a bunch of time with a huge article on this build just yet guys.
July 14th, 2010 - 4:58 pm
Did they make an un-stated change to Art of War? Really no longer instant FoLs or Exorcisms now 50% less casting time?
Not like I’m dependent upon those in pvp or pve or anything…
July 14th, 2010 - 5:05 pm
@Harven
It’s now instant holy lights and still instant exorcisms, still 2 talent points.
July 14th, 2010 - 7:35 pm
Yeah, that’s for ONE point invested. Not for two. 50% for 1, 100% for 2 points. Don’t worry.
July 14th, 2010 - 8:31 pm
There are tons of Paladin related information that is still not out yet such as our new skills, mechanics, talent changes (especially for ret), and a blue post stated that subsequent patches will include more paladin changes.
July 15th, 2010 - 1:13 am
“I’m going to regret saying this, but the paladin trees are the most changed in the game. There are only a few of the current beta talents that survived the, um, cleansing. ”
Yeah… so… um…
“There was one Ret talent in particular we really liked, and we started building a rotation around it. Then we decided the mechanic was good enough to flesh out for Holy and Prot too.”
Anyone else thinking Art of War?
July 15th, 2010 - 7:05 am
I have to say im excited to see the ‘changes’ to the Paladin rotation that they are talking about…
…except I have heard those words before.
Several times…
July 15th, 2010 - 11:34 am
@ tomato
it must be. in the context of changing/affecting rotations,and a “mechanic” what in the ret tree actually does this?
2pc T10 – cooldown watching, not a big deal, but i suppose it can count.
CS/DS – new attacks
Art of War – the only real proc/rotation changer that can work for this. If the mechanic is “makes instant cast normally spells with a cast time you wouldn’t look at”, then it can easily be applied to holy and prot as well. that said, I see the mechanic going baseline and affecting us even more than it does now. fine by me, honestly, our rotation of fcfs could use a little more spice, really the rotation never really changed unless you were slow at hitting buttons until 2pc t10.
At the comments that paladins are going to be changing more than any other class (again), I’m not surprised. it’s happened many times before (like every xpac) where somthing huge changes, keeps the class fresh, and is sorely needed considering we cant fill ANY PvE role without speccing for it, somthing a warrior or rogue or priest or shaman could potentially do as a base-class.
Back on topic slightly, wtb beta invite to check this stuff out before it hits live. going straight from A–>Z in a raid enviroment sucks… then again, i fully expect a huge jump in stats and everything else like it was from BC–> wrath making end-game raiding a joke… but that’s just me anyways.
July 15th, 2010 - 2:06 pm
“We’re not ready to share the design just yet, and like all changes of this sort, it will be controversial”
That quotation right there, scares the shit out of me. It could be good, it could be downright pitiful and game breaking (for the negative although all game breaking abilities/mechanics are bad for the game). I’m very curious to know, but at the same time, I’m terrified. Should these changes go through there will be no going back.
Just think.. imagine you’re in the original beta. You’re playing your paladin and they post that line above. And you’re thinking, oh awesome, this should be cool. BAM! Seal and judgement system are launched. Good for paladins? Certainly controversial and certainly a mechanics change.
Hesitant anticipation I think best describes the current situation..
July 16th, 2010 - 7:26 am
@ Rahmiel
Been there, seen it, suffered through it. Only thing that probably stopped me from quitting the game then was that I was Prot mainly until 2.2.
I’m going to hold m breath here. Cataclysm will be live or die for me.
July 16th, 2010 - 1:37 pm
@Odenknight
For sure, everyone has hope as soon as they hear there will be changes. You think “oh, finally!” but negative change is change nonetheless and no matter how bad the situation is, it can always get worse.
I’m not a pessimist, but when you hear GC say “this change will be controversial” … it could be controversial in our favour (as in the other classes will be upset that we’re getting so much love and have a great class), or against us (in terms of viability/gameplay).
July 16th, 2010 - 6:20 pm
All of the paladin specializations will make use of a new resource called Holy Power. Holy Power accumulates from using Crusader Strike, Holy Shock, and some other talents. Holy Power can be consumed to augment a variety of abilities, including:
* An instant mana-free heal: Word of Glory
* A buff to increase holy damage done: Inquisition
* A massive physical melee attack for Retribution paladins: Templar’s Verdict
* Holy Shield’s duration is now extended by Holy Power
* Divine Storm’s damage is now increased by Holy Power
We also introduced several new heals for Holy Paladins including Healing Hands (an AoE heal-over-time that is applied to all players standing near the paladin), Light of Dawn (a cone heal with a 30-yard range), as well as a new heal called Divine Light, which is similar to a priest’s Greater Heal, and the new instant heal mentioned above, Word of Glory.
…whoa
July 16th, 2010 - 6:50 pm
@ Overweight
I had a funny feeling they where going to do something like that. I remember reading (or posting) about something along the lines of that back in like patch 3.1. The dynamic on something like that makes us more like a DK but in the long run I think its alot easier to design around. Right now I find all flavors of my paladin boring. Hit 1, 2, 3, repeat.. I’ve had more fun on my rogue then my paladin. Hopefully this brings back that “holy” feeling of ret and adds more flavor to prot.
July 16th, 2010 - 7:42 pm
Q: Can you give us a sneak peek at one or two of the new Retribution abilities or talents?
A. Templar’s Verdict: An instant weapon attack that causes a percentage of weapon damage. Consumes all applications of Holy Power to increase damage dealt:
* 1 Holy Power: 55% Weapon Damage
* 2 Holy Power: 125% Weapon Damage
* 3 Holy Power: 225% Weapon Damage
Whoa indeed; this is probably the strike they’re giving us to replace Divine Storm since it’s now being oriented towards AE damage.
I really hope they don’t just give us damage however, and have it nerfed just like 3.0.
July 16th, 2010 - 8:09 pm
A third resource… 5 years too late imo.
Man, I’m so lost as to how it’s going to work out. Should be interesting come 4.0 or by some miracle, getting into beta. I have played Warhammer online and the warrior priest was a great fun class. Should be interesting to see how this third resource works. Balancing mana to use abilities like crusader strike “and other talents” (assuming we still use mana even) to then use another resource for dmg. Think we’ll get some sort of stacking buff, like our frost badge libram? It looks like it’s a stack of some kind.. just unsure if it’s on us, or on the mobs from the templar’s verdict example.
Interesting idea behind the “instant free heal”. Although reading over templar’s verdict again, I wish the dmg were scaled back some and instead of physical dmg it was holy dmg. Still.. I guess this is just easier to balance around. I wonder if there are higher ranks to templar’s verdict…
July 16th, 2010 - 8:26 pm
in Cata, paladins will Verdict faces.
AoW turned into the entire concept for paladin mechanics is a great change, it should make every paladin spec a lot more cerebral and certainly make ret less faceroll, since we won’t be mashing gcds as our ‘resource’. though at a 225% weapon damage output, it’s going to hit like a missile tied to a stick, which might be contrary to the whole ‘make ret less about burst’ thing they were talking about for a while.
still, this should really spice up paladin design. i look forward to the new talent trees when they are published with this new mechanic in mind.
July 16th, 2010 - 9:19 pm
not to mention the fact that with a universal judgment, no matter what we hit is getting both the 100% move limiter, as well as the heal-on-hit with just one button. awesome.
i can see the lv 80 QQ now:
CS(1), Hammer,Judge, DS, CS(2), interrupt, exo, CS(3), Verdict. lots of damage, lots of fast. woosh!
July 17th, 2010 - 1:25 am
@ Overweight
It’s definitely great they’re removing judgement of wisdom and light and rolling it all into one spell, “Judgement”
It sucks though, that the new “Judgement”, only heals for 1% of maximum health as opposed to the current 2% however.
July 17th, 2010 - 2:14 pm
@Azium
Well, the numbers could still change (perhaps they just have to readjust it up to 2%). They were saying with some of the talents they need to readjust them since all they did was cut a 5 point talent down to 3 points. They still have to adjust it so you do as much dmg with 3 points in the future, as you do with 5 points now. Something like that. The numbers may change.
But, also, keep in mind the increasing health pools. Now I know 2% > 1% and 2% will always do more healing than that 1% not matter what the health pools are like. But if dmg isn’t scaling with the increase in health pool size, then 2% may be too great of a passive heal. But that’s blizz’s problem to balance all that shit out. We just have to complain if doesn’t “feel right”.
July 18th, 2010 - 11:36 am
what a about holy power??
July 18th, 2010 - 11:58 pm
Well holy crap ! 31 point talent trees and giving DS off base once 1 talent point is placed into Retribution along with a new resource system used for base mastery spells that behave like a Death Knights runic power system.
Also folding passive talents into the tree it’s self.
I stop playing back in January but, this might get me to come back.
Now if they could do something to that stupid raid boss loot system and give me my loot for raiding that night instead of handing it over to a guild mate I cannot stand. This game might offer the win feeling again like I had back when I started at patch 1.7
July 19th, 2010 - 4:55 am
“It’s just a different model. If anything at the moment I’m worried that we made paladins too complex and might have to reign it back in a little.”
I gotta say this got a pretty hard roflmao out of this quote
July 20th, 2010 - 10:41 pm
New talents are up. All I can say is AWESOME. http://www.wowtal.com/#k=.9ob.paladin
Rebuke – Requires 15 points in Retribution Talents
10 mana – Melee Range
Instant – 10 sec cooldown
Interrupts spellcasting and prevents any spell in that school from being cast for 4 sec.
July 21st, 2010 - 10:22 am
quite a bit certain for sure. I’ll hold off on most of my thoughts and comments till tharvolde gets his new news post up… I must say i’m fairly excited. (after playing with talents i have 3 points to swap between PoJ(2), interrupt(1), repent(1) and replenishment(1). QQ tough choice, but its a PvE raiding spec. i figure its entirely possibly to pick up all of these while dropping points out of holy or prot for pvp.
one thing to note: apparently templar’s verdict is tagged as the lv 10 specific spec ability,(according to worldofraids) while also being the 11 pt talent. Likely one of these is going to be dropped for Divine Storm.
July 21st, 2010 - 1:08 pm
I added up some numbers regarding the new stuff on my beta ret. I put them all here:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26227283162&sid=1
July 22nd, 2010 - 12:28 am
I saw the description of Templar’s Verdict…
I chuckled and said “oh man thats gonna get nerfed for sure”….
sigh…