– Rebuke — 4 seconds
-Repent — 6 seconds
– Rebuke 4 Seconds
-Hammer of Justice — 6 Seconds
– Rebuke 4 Seconds
+
-Possible Warstomp/BE Silence … > . > (I’m Alliance, but you see where this is going, especially if you have a rogue buddy helping you on pounding someone).

Anyone else thinking: “FALC-OWWN PAAAAWNCH!” 4 great justice?

Imagine if they changed druids to “removes all root effects” when they shift instead of slowing effects– (since survivability/burst is going up, and they have more time to get away in cheetah form before they die; less flinch requirement.. and a 1/2 speed cheetah is still pretty damned fast)

.. and they change Judgement to an out and out snare. You never know. Stuff happens. They may start basing more of our moves off this ‘Holy Power’ thing.

They’ve got a lot of juggle room, and we’re still very, very early in Beta.

I think our defensive utility is being exchanged for offensive utility. (Controled Spike damage; ala Templar’s Verdict IS a kind of offensive utility.)

That is exactly the build i’m going to pick if these trees go live as they are now on Beta. =)

I get your point and i have to admit that ret is not as doomed as it was in TBC or in vanilla where we were taken only to buff Kings in every 5 minutes in Molten Core =) But let me add that loosing utility just to gain more power in arms is just… not the way ret should go imo. Of course we’ll get along but still, having fun while playing is more important (for me that is) than making others cry in BGs and topping DPS meters in any PvE environment. I’d like to see more utilities even if they bring nerfing to our DPS output.

I think Blizzard is getting better at this PvP balance thing.. and in rated BGs (like the old Grand Marshal days), class-imbalance is less obvious so long as you have a mix. It’s more about team effort.

I agree with the sentimate. We’ll see; I mean, we know we’re not going to just plain suck all out — I mean people whom are dedicated, in any class, have always found ways to be extraordinary.

Blizzard knows the eye of the public is still on Ret Paladins. Fucking them over like in early BC isn’t likely to happen, IMO. I honestly think by the end of beta, we’ll be retardedly overpowered, we’ll rape face for a week of arena, get nerfed, get buffed, get nerfed, get buffed — and end up exactly where we are now, which.. while not ideal, isn’t unplayable or unenjoyable; and we have guarenteed raid spots, and we CAN earn our rated arena gear (unlike Season 3; which was pretty hard-core. I was the first ret paladin on my server to get their S3 weapon without rolling in as Holy to snag it, and that was half way through the season with a Storm-herald NE Warrior (lol@ denying enemy warrior the charge), and a Gladiator resto dro0d.)

*I honestly prefer being able to heal, dispel, and rock people in the head; but the problem with having all three, is that all three can’t be strong enough to actually get things done…*

Those three (amongst many other abilities) made playing a ret paladin fun through TBC and WotLK even though we weren’t strong enough to get things done (…alone - just think of chasing resto druids >.<). ‘Tunnel vision pewpewpew’ is for warriors and rogues and DKs and… and… and… I like being unique.

Zero resiliance for two full seasons, and we started Season 3 with half the resiliance of other classes; all because our gear required gross itemization that didn’t leave room for it. I actually used my arena gear to raid for S2, haha. It was like.. free PvE gear.

I don’t know about you guys but, with Holy power. Dear I say that god old patch 1.8 Reckoning bomb and twisting just had a baby ? Well maybe not seal twisting like we were use to but, melee twisting instead.

And look at the top of holy and prot !

This give me wood just looking at these talents.

This is got to be too good to be true, Not buying it yet guys sorry but, for what it’s worth right now.

@#$% YEAH !

Wehehe we’re back to ‘You heal, you dispel noob! No, you dispel and you heal!’, though this time we have less utilities to bring. On the other hand all the FotM and new ret paladins will have even more fun: tunnel vision facerolling and now they can even flame/blame healers rightfully, ‘Dispel me, you idiot!’ Taking away Cleanse and nerfing utilities worries only the good old ret paladins who had to fight through vanilla and TBC, PvE and PvP wise. To be honest i don’t really care about the changes. Adopting is what we had to learn long ago. Although if i wanted to play a warrior i would roll one… I wants moar utilitiz! Pewpewpewpewpew is just boring. =P